Evening penguins. Much like yourselves, I’ve been thinking a lot recently about formalwear. Honestly, I think you guys take it too far, what with the tuxedos on every minute of every day, but I really thought of all animalkind, you would really understand where I’m coming from.
So, a classic wardrobe. There’s usually a story in every other issue of every magazine that lists the 10 must-have garments. Trench, white button up shirt, dark wash jeans, brightly colored cashmere cardi, blazer, black trousers, little black dress, cocktail dress, khaki trousers and black pencil skirt.
[all images from google image search]
Ah. Guess we need to add vest and tie to the list. Not that I could carry off the menswear look…
As much as I love the must-have wardrobe checklists, and the simple style of Jackie O and Audrey, most of the items on these lists are difficult for me to wear. I’ll be revisiting this off and on over the next few months, looking for the perfect style, fabric and pattern to create each garment on the checklist. First, I’ll outline what I don’t like about each of these ‘classic’ styles. This is shaping up to be a very negative post! My perspective is very much informed by years of haunting the womens and plus sections and dealing with the small offering out there in my size. That being said, I suspect that lots of girls have trouble fitting these simple styles – whether they are a size 4 or a size 20, A cup or double-D (oh, let’s be honest, I need to man up and get a bra fitting. I suspect I am more than a double D…)
Let’s start with the classic trench.
The trench
OK, the trench. As lovely as this looks on Jackie, there are so many things that don’t work for my full busted self. The double breasted style stinks, the epaulets look ridiculous on my narrow shoulders, a tie belt at the natural waist does nothing more than make me resemble an ill-made snowman, and finally the raglan sleeves aren’t the best sleeve style for me (although I encourage you to click on the link to examine the shoulders on this coat on super-zoom. they are super-cool.)
[image Burberry]
The white button up
The white button up. You know who rocked the button up shirt? CJ Craig (from the West Wing, if you don’t get tv in your penguin huts.) That woman looked awesome in her endless collection of silk button blouses. Of course, she’s stork-like and not so blessed in her bosoms as I am.
The problems with the button up are numerous. In order to get one that fits my bust, the shoulders are giant and stand up and away from my body. They’re never fitted enough to wear under sweaters. They’re usually too long. They’re stiff. They require ironing. They’re bunchy. If I tried to tuck one in, I’d again achieve a faintly snow-person shape. Sigh.
[image Talbots]
Dark wash jeans
I always think of Stacy and Clinton (from What Not to Wear) when I consider the proper cut for jeans. I will admit to making some progress on getting a better pair of jeans, but I’m still a bit unsure about the best cut for my shape. When it comes to RTW jeans, the fit is awful (lots of gaping at the waist) and the ‘bootcut’ style in my size (RTW 20) is laughably super flared. While Stacy here has a great amount of flare in her jeans, it becomes a bit more problematic getting the shape to balance well with larger thighs and hips without looking like bell bottoms. No wonder I’m partial to tucking my jeans into boots – the boots provide a good amount of balance to my hips!
BTW – Don’t you love her Buffy the Vampire-like peek of tummy showing?
[image fanpop]
Brightly colored cashmere cardigan
The cashmere cardigan. As you know, dear penguins, I love me some brightly colored sweaters, and who doesn’t love the coziness of cashmere? I’d literally kill for a simple coral crewneck cashmere cardi like this one. But I have never seen one in the wild that would fit me. I can usually fit a RTW XXL, or even an XL, depending on the brand, but cashmere seems to run small. And the cashmere sweaters that are available in my size are generally in the Macy’s women’s career section – totally Jones New York with the accompanying horrifying ‘womens’ style – long, large and vaguely tentlike. Double. Ugh.
[image white and warren]
Blazer
OK. Blazers aren’t that problematic. I just donated most of my suit-wardrobe to Arc. What I had was fine. All the jackets had the run-of-the-mill giant shoulder issue that I usually find in fitted RTW garments that fit my bust. But they were OK. Making a blazer should be one of the easier projects in my classic wardrobe project. I am having a hard time finding a pattern, though. I’d prefer something with a peplum and a full inset waistband and there’s nothing in the new pattern books that fits the bill. There are a few options, however in the out of print patterns that Hotpatterns is selling on their Etsy site.
[image Talbots]
Black trousers
My main problem (other than my strangely boxy crotch curve) with trousers is that hip to thigh to hem width proportion issue that I mentioned regarding dark wash jeans. I really like the Inside Out Style, a style blog that has lots of information about dressing for your body type. Of course, I can’t figure out which body type I am, but I think I might be an ‘8’ – the high hip hourglass (note the resemblance between a snowman and the number ‘8’!) So 8’s are supposed to stick with straight or bootcut trousers and stay away from wide of flared styles. When you get into larger sizes, straight legged trousers are also wide legged trousers! I think my thigh is probably 25 inches or so at its widest point – a 25 inch wide hem in a trouser is quite floppy indeed. And if I ease in to keep them from being that floppy, they start to sport the dreaded womens-section-trousers-with-elastic-mom shape.
[image Ann Taylor, archived in my Pinterest account]
Little black dress and cocktail dress
[black dress unknown; pink cocktail dress jewelry101]
You didn’t think I’d get all the way through this without invoking Joan, now did you?
I’m lumping the little black dress and the cocktail dress together because I have the same issue with both of them. Getting the fit right for a sheath dress in larger sizes can certainly be problematic. Like the pencil skirt, which we’ll visit shortly, there is a lot of potential for the stuffed sausage look. Cut poorly, the sheath dress will be too tight across the hips and hang straight down from those tightly encased hips, giving the wearer a terrible blocky dress, old person vibe. I have this problem with most RTW sheath dresses. However, I’ve found that properly fitted, the silhouette is one I really like for me.
No… the problem I have with sheath dresses is all about sitting down. I, like most penguins, prefer my skirts to hit just below my knee – rather a long length for a skirt considering that I am also a huge fan of much shorter mid-thigh length skirts. But when I sit in that length of skirt, the fabric rides up to a shocking degree. To a don’t wear in polite company, at church or in the workplace degree. Also, Spanx or any other leg covering that has the darker, more supportive material that goes down past the hips are strictly out of the question – it will definitely show when sitting. And there’s no chance of crossing my legs, even if I do manage to sit without flashing the world entirely too much thigh.
I think the problem has to do with my rather rounded and substantial rump roast. When I sit, the fabric hikes up from the waist and just needs that much clearance to curve around my haunches – leaving me contemplating the best brand of self-tanning lotion and thanking the great good lord that my leg hair grows in so light as to be nearly invisible. I’m not sure the answer for this fitting conundrum. Obviously, fuller skirts get rid of the problem, but I really don’t think fuller skirts are that flattering on me! I’m also contemplating separates that are so well tailored they will appear to be a sheath dress, but will ease off the sitting issue. I’m not a huge fan of that solution, though – especially for the cocktail dress, which incidentally I will likely never wear other than for modeling!
The khaki pant
I have never, ever, not once in my long life come across a pair of chinos that were in the least bit flattering. Never. I suspect this may have more to do with my general dislike of the style and less with the problems of a size 20 girl trying to stuff herself into a pair. Even though they’re somewhat related to jeans (they’re the slightly more wealthy cousin of jeans?), I don’t like how they look when they’re tight (who does) and all other versions just make me feel like an ankle exposed clerk at Target. Or a phy ed teacher. Or a variety of other practical types of stereotypes that I don’t find enjoyable. Valet comes immediately to mind. Icky tassled loafer wearing men at happy hour downtown. The carryout kids at my grocery store.
The only ‘khakis’ I like are straight up suburban-housewife-art-fair-subaru-driving crops; slightly wider legs, lots of pockets and zippers. A possible drawstring at the waist and a for sure drawstring at the hem, which is usually just south of the kneecap. Those I like.
[image Banana Republic]
The black pencil skirt
Ah, a true basic. As long-time readers may know, I have a love-hate relationship with black. I love it so much, it’s pretty much all I wore through my 20’s. In a contemporary Banana Republic way. not in a goth way. I’d have been better having gone the goth direction!
No, it’s my white dog that makes me hate it so. That being said, I’m always up to putter with another pencil skirt. Once a style I wouldn’t be caught dead in (see my earlier comments under sheath dresses regarding stuffed sausage looks), I know see that properly fitted, this is a great style for me. So many details – waistband or not? What length? Lined? Vent? Proper hip curve? Fabric? I suspect that the perfect pencil skirt will be the work of the lifetime, but we will see!
[image Banana Republic]
So that, my pretty penguins, is that. I have problems. I will find answers, patterns, and high end fabrics and construct myself a ‘classic’ wardrobe from styles that flatter. Am I missing anything? Do you have a classic wardrobe? Do you wish you did?
As a similarly sized person I also have issues with the "classic" wardrobe. Strangely though I'm a completely different body shape to you – having wide shoulders and a small bust, a very limited waist and slim hips (OK not slim but relatively so … ) The trench would look awful on me – shapeless and unfeminine. The button up shirt looks dreadful (although its a look I love) as the buttons start straining over my mummy tummy only emphasizing further.
Trousers are good for me – in fact its the loss of my favourite pants that made me start sewing again. I spent so much time searching for a replacement that it would have been quicker to make them. I do have my own version of classic wardrobe I'm sure I just have to work out what it is …
Nik
Hmm. In my heart of hearts, I think I still feel a bit too young to start wearing a classic wardrobe. At 24 and still studying, I'd rather go for cute and quirky. Having said that, I do like going for the garcon look sometimes (although admittedly I'm a little short to really pull it off).
I also think that a classic wardrobe may have your above-mentiont garments as a basic guideline, but there's nothing saying that you can't make them your own. Your lotus-skirt makes for an awesome pencil skirt alternative, I think. And who needs trench coats if they can also have a Lady Grey… Maybe a fitted-at-the-waist-with-a-tulip-skirt dress might make a cute LBD alternative for you? I'm sure you'll have a lot of fun figuring out which styles are classic for you! 🙂
My whole adult life, I've wished for a classic wardrobe. However, it's becoming less and less attainable. As I've gained weight, I've gone from hourglass to inverted triangle. The sheath dress and pencil skirt are two of the most unflattering garments on me. I'd love a trench and at one time, had one that I loved, but it was in lime green and NOT double breasted, certainly not the traditional cut. I loved it, but it got a horrible stain down the front. The button blouse still haunts me after all these years. I've gotten the fit to a point where it fits in all the right places but then I move and the bust buttons strains even though it doesn't feel tight. I give up.
I totally concur with most of your points! As a larger busted lady with an 8 shape (i have totally spent far too much time on that site!), the main issue with most of these is fit-people always say, as an hourglass surely you look good in everything?! (oh sad deluded people without big boobs)of course in principle we should, but only if it fits like a glove. which none of it ever does. sigh.
I have spent years looking for anon double breasted trench that did up over the boobs, but to no avail. I recently bought a (extremely cheap) double breasted one two sizes too big, but more importantly a super jolly bright pink colour, and I just don't do up the buttons, using the tie instead, but mainly leaving it open. people keep saying they like it-I think the colour distracts them! I would love a white shirt that fit, but my sewing skills just aren't up to it yet!
I know what you mean about the crotch/top of tights showing sheath, I frequently do the top and skirt that look like a dress thing, and no one seems to notice, in fact they keep saying they like my dress! Usually best in black as otherwise you can see the join. Unless you work a wide belt in.
I love a trench, but I won't ever button it up,because double-breasted is so dumb for me. And so in my mind I just substitute a car coat for a trench. I just thrifted a somewhat amazing Eileen Fisher coat, that screams classic trench, although it's single breasted and mint green. We'll see, but it may prove the perfect job interview coat.
Speaking of job interviews, I have the classics on my mind as well. I tend to cling to a skirts and tops wardrobe, and I can't resist the allure of a great jacket, but I'll admit to not being very staid in my color choices. I own a pink striped seersucker blazer with 3/4 length sleeves. It makes me feel like Dick Van Dyke. In a good way.
I'm an "H" from inside-out-style and most definitely not plus and I still have issues with most of these classic styles. I don't have the bust for RTW tailored shirts, a trench tied at the waist is no good, pencil skirts… Well, that's less of a fit issue than a crap-I-just-took-the-stairs-two-at-a-time and ripped my skirt slit up 3" problem…
I dunno. The menswear thing doesn't really do it for me. Though I would like a good blazer or two (has to fit my shoulders, bust, petite top, and long arms, though…
Nicola – isn't is amazing how different body shapes are? I have a friend who has the same measurements as I do, but she looks COMPLETELY different – she's got a flat tummy and broader hips (and shoulders – I'm so jealous) – I'm more narrow from side to side and more bumpy over the tummy and rump!
Andrea – I would still call you hourglass, not inverted triangle! On days 17-19 of MMM you look particularly hourglassy!
Alessa – that's the plan! I already have one black lotus blossom derivative almost done!
Monkeysocks – I crackedup over your color distracting people. I have a pair of hot pink and white polka dotted rainboots and people are ALWAYS like "I like your boots" and I think they don't actually like them, they're just shocked into saying something by the color!
Laura – just one jacket and some color will get you through interview season! I only own a few blazer type jackets these days – down from having a good three-weeks worth of solid suit wearing!
Taran – I was thought of you and a friend of mine who's on the way-low end of the size chain, although with a very different shape than you. She's helped me get off my 'only plus size girls have a hard time finding good clothes' high horse. She has slightly better luck at the thrift shops than I do because she's small, but just as much trouble finding stuff she thinks she looks good in!
I'm looking to find a more professional/classic wardrobe myself, and enjoyed this post very much. I don't know if I'm an 8 or an H, according to Inside Out Style, but I don't really know if I care so much anymore. Regardless of the tips I get on the style sites, I have to figure out by trying things on what kind of clothes I enjoy wearing. And, if it fits it is always way more flattering, regardless of the style. I'm working on jeans at the moment, and have blazers and trousers on my todo-list.
And, regarding the sheath dress that rises, maybe Carlyn (diary of a sewing fanatic) can give you some advice. She rocks dresses like no one! 🙂
Kjersti – Yay! I found jeans much easier to fit than trousers – since they're meant to be more fitted, you can just make 'em tighter and get rid of all those annoying wrinkles that show up with trousers!
I like the style stuff tips primarily because I suffer from a bit of blindness when looking in the mirror – or rather, hyper focus! I look so much at one feature I don't like that I can't take a step back and see the whole and what shapes look good on me – so sites like Inside Out Style are super interesting to give me a starting point. Plus, I'm addicted to lists, so anything presented in "8 ways to dress for your body type" will suck me in.
That's a good suggestion on checking with the sewing fanatic re. the excessive thigh exposure with sheath dresses! I suspect that part of my issue may be that I like my sheath dresses to be fairly fitted, especially in the top! She recently posted something about her dress riding up during her commute, didn't she?
I don't think that a little black dress has to be a sheath dress. I think your March dress fits the bill perfectly. It's something you can dress up or down, etc. Similarly, I think that cocktail dresses don't need to be sheaths. I think it's about the length, neckline, and the type of fabric. Several of your planned year of the dress patterns could make good cocktail dresses, IMO.
As for the trousers, I think you've perfected some possibilities for the pattern. Same with pencil skirts. And you already made a pair of dark wash jeans. Plus, your Lady Grey is a fine stand in for a trench, especially with the color you chose.
The cashmere sweater sounds like a job for your thrift store refashioning chops.
As for white button up shirts, I have two that fit me beautifully, and I pretty much never wear them. I spill things. It's obnoxious! I generally don't like how I look in white. I know you like white, though.
Also in the things-you-would-wear-but-I-would-not category, I think you definitely would like some khakis, if only you think of them as another opportunity for cream pants, not that you have to follow a certian silhouette.
As someone else whose love of wearing black clothes ahs run up against the (annoyingly persistant) shedding of white-furred pets (cats in my case), I've found that charcoal grey is a good alternative. The feel is similar to black, its almost the same level of neutral (in terms of ability to mix with colors, works well with browns too, though other greys can be a problem), and the white fur is nigh invisible.
In terms of ride up on sheath dresses (and pencil/other skirts) when sitting, a "full seat" adjustment might help, especially if you notice that the back hem of the dresses ride up while you're standing. I'm also an "8" shape, with a 12 inch difference between my waist and the widest part of my hips (seen from the front) and a 14" difference betweteen my waist and the widest part of my bum as from the side… sigh the fitting nightmare this creates is what led me to sew in the first place. The various large booty related adjustments that Sandra Betzina includes in "Fast Fit" have really served me well, and by elongating skirts at the center back (not always at the hip notch tho, if its set too high or too low in the back) I get a hem that isn't shorter in the back, a little less tightness across the hips (because the skirt isn't being pulled to the back) and both of those things mean that when sitting the skirt is less inclined to hike itself up to cover the backside, if that makes sense. After ruining like three skirts in a row that just didn't fit in the back (and were unflattering in the front as a result), I started thinking of the impact that my bottom has on garments in terms of "displacement" (totally not doing any of my science teachers justice when I appropriate this word this way, yikes), and how much fabric is displaced by what my rear end is doing in situation x, y or z.
Patty – this post made me laugh out loud!!! I can so relate to many of your fitting issues.. I don't even buy button down shirts anymore, my boobs are so large in relation to the rest of me, that the shirts always gapped.. And I never buttoned my suit jackets because they didn't fit across the boobs either… I think sewing our own classic wardrobe is the only answer..
What a fantastic post. I am not into the button down shirt or the trench either – for the reason of the boobs. And chinos are just the most boring thing in the world, IMO. So I think we are of like minds!
So here's a question – If you have a wardrobe that works for you – and yours most certainly seems to – and you know that most of the things in that list won't suit your body type, why fuss about it? While I admire all the folks who can carry all that off, it isn't the kind of stuff that works for me. And isn't that what the basic lists are – a starting point? While I would love to be Audrey Hepburn – she has a waist, and I don't. One of the things that I have figured out in the last few days is that while shaping at the waist is good for me, a belt is bad. It just rides up and ends up under my bust. So I have a khaki coat with princess seams and ruching in the side panels that looks a thousand times better without the belt – trench coat? Not really, but it fits the bill. I guess my point is that you know what works for you already. You just need to find your way through the list without getting frustrated.
Great post – you got us all thinking.
Gaidig – Good points! I really love sheath dresses, though! I will admit that part of the reason I made the March dress was to get a LBD in my hot little hands. It feels super casual, though. I know I styled a 'night out version', but I don't think I'd feel super comfortable wearing it out to, say, the theater. The movies, for sure…
Anonymous – I've totally been looking at grey rather than black too! Although, charcoal grey is still a fur magnet for me. And very good point on the Full booty adjustment – my one sheath-style dress that I've finished has a level hem, though – but perhaps I should experiment with a non-level hem…
Karen and kline – tee hee! Those pesky bosoms…
Mary Collins – well… I'm fussing because it's fun! I love the easy, clean style of a classic wardrobe. Also, from a blog perspective, I thought that starting with a 'classic wardrobe' would provide a common reference point/language. All ya'll know what a white button up shirt is, so if I manage to make one that's flattering and wearable under cardi's AND works with my large bust, small ribcage and XXL hips many of you will 'get' the point of that project. Compare this to, say, getting Colette's Parfait to fit – well, it's still obvious what I did, but not so universally obvious.
Part of my point of this little project is to get over the attitude 'well, that works for her, but she has a ….' (fill in the blank – waist, boobs, booty, face of an angle, hot pink cadillac) and instead say – how can I make that look work for for me? I know for myself and for friends that I've talked to, we're so quick to say "Oh, I could never wear that." It literally makes me crazy when girls think that they "can't" wear, say, a wiggle dress, head to Lane Bryant and pick out another flowy tunic that shows off entirely too much cleavage (not that I don't like sporting a lot of chest now and then!) Part of why I blog is to try to show that we can wear it. Perhaps the waistline should be raised. Or maybe using a more drapey fabric for the white button up shirt will make it wearable. It crossed my mind that positioning buttons at an angle on a double breasted coat may completely change the look.
Also – has anyone read the Claire Scheffer couture book (I'm sure there's a resounding 'yes' out there!) I think I read in that book that the same dress will look completely different on the hanger, depending on which client its been made for – I'm totally intrigued by the concept of using tailoring techniques to get the exact same drape/pocket placement/etc. on a garment, regardless of the shape of the body underneath! There's a bit of that in this project too.
Well… look how impassioned I am! I hope I didn't imply that I'm frustrated – I'm certainly not frustrated by the project, I like to stew and plot over things (that I can fix by applying creative thought, research skills and some physical activity…) I AM, however, frustrated by the amount of basset hound fur on the recently hemmed black wool skirt sitting on my lap (under my laptop, I treat my projects with such respect…) Clearly, to completely erase frustration from my life, I need to make multiple versions of the March dress in white pleather. Easy to clean, flattering and the basset debris won't show!
You're totally in a fever of the best kind! I love the experiment of not only seeing if you can wear things we're told are "wrong" for our body types, but also going further to see if through ingenuity and blood,sweat & tears you can craft them. How great that the Spring Palette Challenge coincided as well, making the flattery of it all happen at once. I think there's a book in these entries about classic style made to fit you!
You have described every relationship I have with clothing. I literally look for patterns for chicks with waistbands just under the bra line or that I could alter them to be so without looking like Myrtle Urkel. I think to myself, if I didn't sport my 2 liter instead of my six pack, would my waist really fall to my belly button? Here's the thing I am sewing now and not when I find out, so I persevere. The ten lists are the enemy. Thanks for speaking out for us more rubenesque girls.
Hi there!
I wanted to share with you the first thing that popped into my head when I read about your ill-luck with cashmere. Lord & Taylor. In the winter, their cashmere selection, in misses' and womens' sizes is wonderful. And very reasonably priced. They make sweaters in all the usual silhouettes as well as a few more fun ones that change every year. The color spectrum is nothing short of amazing.
I don't work for them, but I am a very loyal customer!
Love your blog, by the way. I just started reading it, and I like your writing style!
Garnet
I have a very large bosom and I found the only thing I can do with button up shirts is double the buttons. Smaller, closely spaced buttons works well for me. I sympathize with your small shoulder problem, too.
Oh my heck! While I'd like to agree with your points, I just found out hot patterns has etsy site for OOP patterns? My mind is boggling and I can't digest the other info! Thanks for the link